Home

Welcome! Log in or Join us

Forums SEGmeter Configuring Data Rates to work with the new pricing plans ?

Subscribe to Configuring Data Rates to work with the new pricing plans ? 72 posts, 18 voices , Tagged: data Rate

Reply to topic
 

 
Icon_missing_medium
Oct 7, 2015 11:41am
16 posts

What's the best way to configure the data rates to work with the new pricing model ?

Looking to back off my 41 streams from what looks like about a 40 sec data rate to something a little softer before I run out of the trial period.

 
Tony1_medium
Oct 7, 2015 12:16pm
169 posts

First off, I was hoping that for existing members Sam would of at least have given an estimate of the monthly cost based on what we have up and running now.

With that said, I send data to seg at one minute intervals, this gives a good balance of actual realtime readings. I currently have a dashbox along with my GEM and I'm going to take a hard look at using that. I might end up with a combination of seg and dashbox for my data.

 

Tony

 
Samotage_300_medium
Oct 7, 2015 12:47pm
555 posts

Hey Glen and Tony,

Glenn, you an log into your SEGbox and change the data rate in the config file for your SEGbox.  

Tony, and others.  Subscribing to the trial will have a a zero cost invoice generated in the next two weeks (after subscription)  This will provide you with an estimate, and I take this on board too, as I think it would be sensible to have an estimate available and will work out how to do this ASAP.

Very soon, in the next 24 hours or so I will be providing some info about stream data rates, if it's not available in the config report in tools.  This is where it will be.  Plus there will be a warning displayed for people of sub 40 seconds streams.  As I have said many times, 45 seconds is optimal for SEG, however there are still heaps of people sendind sub 10 second data for some reason or another.

Data storage is expensive, and it's killing me!

Thanks for your feedback too, it's appreciated!  Besides SEG is for you - not some hidden third party.

Sam, @samotage

 
Samotage_300_medium
Oct 7, 2015 12:48pm
555 posts

Glenn, you will need to ssh into it, and I know you have the chops to do it.

If not post back and let me know!

Sam.

 
Tony1_medium
Oct 7, 2015 6:29pm
169 posts

Regardless of the calculated stream, just to send power, energy and amps to seg it will cost $60.00 u.s. Dollars per month if you use every channel of the gem. This doesn't include temperature and pulse channels. I think a flat rate per device pricing model should also be offered. In six months at $60 per month the roi on the dashbox is starting to look good.

 
Icon_missing_medium
Oct 7, 2015 7:02pm
42 posts

sandeen...

from what i can see your calculation would be something like this.... but im just guessing

60 reqular streams with a (40-60 second  data) rate is 60*.59 = $ 35.40

say u have 4 calculated streams   thats $7.96

plus the overall accounting fee.. 4.99

total.. $35.40+7.96+4.99= $50/month!...    $600/yr... oucha...  

 

ya that pretty much wipes out the savings of the monitor...  :(

 

 

 
Tony1_medium
Oct 7, 2015 7:28pm
169 posts

Currently have a total of 116 streams plus 22 calculated stream. Monthly cost will be $117.21 (this is more than my monthly electric bill)..

Below is the break down, they sure add up.

32 energy, 32 power, 32 amps, 1 voltage, 19 temperature and 22 calculated streams.

 

 
Tony1_medium
Oct 7, 2015 8:26pm
169 posts

I'm not oppossed to paying, I just think $1406.52 per year is a little steep. I know at least five people who use this site, they are all in this tread. I'm assuming most of them in this tread are power users that have on average 60 stream and a couple of calculated stream. Lets say with the new pricing model each one of us pays $50 per month, or $600 per year, that works out $3000 just for the five of us. Trust me I think the SEG site is great, but not that great at $50 per month. I also know that it does cost money to run this site I just think the new pricing model was not well thought out. 

I also think that any data that comes in with a fequency of less than 1 minute should be booted out of the system.

 

 
Icon_missing_medium
Oct 7, 2015 8:32pm
42 posts

WELL SAID Tnakelsk!!

 

 

 
Samotage_300_medium
Oct 7, 2015 10:25pm
555 posts

Hi all,

Thanks for your feedback on pricing.  I appreciate it, and it is good to hear your views, and some very good points made.

What I am going to do, is review the pricing - to bring it down

Will post back here soon.

Sam, @samotage

 

 
Icon_missing_medium
Oct 7, 2015 10:42pm
42 posts

Sam,

 

For the record... I agree with sandeen regarding past history data...

 If that does help your situation...I could easily  live with  maybe a 2 month back look at most...  The past save no $$...  its the present I like to track....

 

Thanks for listening to us...

jp

 

 

 
Create_profile_pic_medium
Oct 7, 2015 10:43pm
2 posts

Hi Sam

I really appreciate the last couple of years with SEG, however i would add my name to the list of users that will have to pull the plug at the proposed pricing. Quite right to point out data rates, your overheads and the need for cost recovery, and even a profit. No problem with that and would be happy to pay my share, but at $50+ a month, it is not an option.

I think that recovery of our previous data should be made possible, perhaps at a modest cost and the pricing reduced by a factor of at least 10.

I will watch the forum with interest to see how this develops.

 

Regards

Mark

 

 
Samotage_300_medium
Oct 8, 2015 1:24am
555 posts

Ok People,

I have listened, and published new pricing.

https://smartenergygroups.com/pricing

This is significantly lower, and should change the discussion.  

A couple of points I'd like to make:

- Many people have a lot of data streams, and at times I wonder why so many?

- Robos, you have a particuarly high data rate, reducing this to a more sensible rate will make a big impact on your costs.

- This stuff is tricky, I'm not sure many know of the staggering complexity underneath SEG - It is not something I am going to go on about, however at some point I need to make some money so it can contunue.

- Free is a perspective.  Consider the pig, it doesn't pay for it's meals because the pig is the product. I don't want the SEG members to be the pig... think of the Facebook etc.

Let me know your thoughts.

Sam, @samotage

 
Image_medium
Oct 8, 2015 1:37am
1 post

Hi Sam

 

First post ever, I am a small user and would be happy to pay an annual fee rather be hit with account keeping fees every month!

Regards

 

Ross

 
Samotage_300_medium
Oct 8, 2015 1:48am
555 posts

Hey Sandeen,

Some people have over a hundred!  Some of them are running 11 second data rates - that is a lot of data...  You seem to have a sensible number of streams.  The question in my mind, is what do everyone do with so much data?

The stream doubling is the smartest way to do the power/energy stuff.  Early on in the life of SEG the derivation of energy from power was experimented with - and it proved to be problematic in terms of variable time gaps and offline periods...  Energy needs to be continually integrated at the measurement point to calculate it correctly.

Hey Downs pig, welcome to the discussion!

Annual billing is an option, as well as quarterly - it needs to be set up by request at the moment.

Sam, @samotage

 

 
Icon_missing_medium
Oct 8, 2015 2:00am
42 posts

?? on what constitutes a stream??..  my GEM will output  32  *_p and *_E values to SEG.....  I dont think there is a way to stop the packet from sending both... My question is ... if i do not use many of the e type streams and delete them  from "streams" in SEG ... would you still get charged.. 

I guess putting it another way... are we charged for what is coming in... or what we use... (if u can even tell??)  in the SEG

 

I fear the answer is you pay  for what is coming in... and since we cannot change what comes out of GEM (that i know of?)

 ... paying for 32 of the 64 "streams" that are not used... is an even bigger bummer...

 

Thanks

 

 
Samotage_300_medium
Oct 8, 2015 2:07am
555 posts

Hey jpellet,

If the streams aren't in SEG then you won't be charged!  The excess data in the incoming will just end up in the bitbucket from the api processing.  It would be smarter to configure the GEM accordingly I'd think.

Sam, @samotage

 
Samotage_300_medium
Oct 8, 2015 2:09am
555 posts

Hey Sandeen,

The data rate is the average distance between data points over a period of time, irrespective of how often the API is hit.

Data storage is the killer.  Lost several months (of my time storage is cheap in comparison!) this year dealing with it...  

Sam, @samotage

 
Samotage_300_medium
Oct 8, 2015 2:17am
555 posts

It's not really that feasable considering the growth in recent times.  The vast majority of data is relatively new.

It may be dropped at some point - if the service can continue!

Sam, @samotage

 
Icon_missing_medium
Oct 8, 2015 4:47am
7 posts

Well the new pricing certainly seems better (at least compared to the prior one).  However, there is a big jump from free to the minimum charge with seemingly not much benefit.  For someone new coming in, three is a pretty significant limit and $5/month is a pretty big jump to get to the 4th stream.  I realize there is a cost for the work for billing so here are a few suggestions:

  1. Include 20-30 1min streams with the min $5/month charge so it at least seems like I am getting something for that minimum fee.
  2. Have people deposit (min $5 to $25) money and deduct usage from that.  This is what voip.ms does and it seems reasonable.
  3. If storage is the real cost driver, charge based on the used storage (and provide tools to easily delete old realtime data, even if it is not easy/possible to preserve the 30min and/or daily data
  4. Allow users to set a max limit on a stream at SEG with decent UI to make it easier to deal with things that do not provide great control

The free ride has been great, but I am sure the expectations for service/features will increase dramaically when people are actually paying for the service.  I know I was both disappointed and not surprised when I saw the notice.  Years ago, you said you would charge for it at some point.  In some respects it is surprising it has taken this long.  From a data visualization capability point of view this service is better that anything else I have seen out there.  But, some of the UI is difficult to use.  I have always wondered how/who paid for all the servers.  Now I have to figure out what I want to do.

I have a couple of questions. 

Do streams that are not active count, i.e. they would be $0.10/ month?

Is that $AUS or $US?

 

Thanks

 
Icon_missing_medium
Oct 8, 2015 10:02am
16 posts

Hi Sam,

SSH is no worries, but a path and filename where the data rates should be configured would be helpful, perhaps as a sticky post.

Ta

Glenn

 

 

 
Icon_missing_medium
Oct 8, 2015 12:06pm
16 posts

Hi Sam

Updates on my question and some more ideas for community discussion

Data Rate

Did some further browsing, and think I might have found a candidate file for updating the data rate.

I'm on a SegBox V2.0

/root/config_segbox.lua

Has a line under the General Controls section contains

data_rate = 45         -- seconds default, to be updated from the cloud

From the earlier notes in this discussion I take it that the updated from the Cloud is reserved for future expansion.  I note that this data rate, seems to match the reported data rate on my streams.

So if I push this value out, then I should be backing off my data rate right ?

Reducing my Data Foot Print - Different Rention Periods by Stream

The other item that might be of interest... or perhaps as a separate thread, is where I can indicate to drop data over time.  eg If I require only instantaneous energy (Kw), but would like to track power (KwH) over time, is there an easy way to flag different retention periods by stream ?

Deleting old data

On a similar thread would you look to support DELETE methods on the REST API  so I could delete my own data to reduce my data footprint, hinting that I would be interested in a pricing model that let me reduce my data retention costs if that is a key source of pain.

Data Offload

Similar to the deletion of old data, another option that might be useful for me is the ability to download and then delete old data.  That way I can take on my own data retention headaches, and leave you to focus on the current data.

Paying up front to reduce the Monthy Invoice cost

On the reducing the Admin cost, I would be open to some pay up front (eg annually) to avoid the monthly invoicing cost.  This seem common on other monitoring systems like alarms.

Hope you don't mind me throwing further ideas into the ring over time.  Keen not to loose the service, that means keeping you viable and with time available for the fun stuff.

Ta

Glenn

 
Icon_missing_medium
Oct 8, 2015 12:09pm
42 posts

to me its sounds like figuring out someones invoice based on there streams... and streams they add and remove at any givin time is going to be a real PIA not to mention  people tracking their cost and complaing  (for lack of a better work) to SAM continueously....  

 Sam we love the product... please decide on resonable data rates and resonable simple pricing that you and us .. can live with.. ...  

 

$10/month...  set limits to data rate... (do not accept rates to high),  limit streams to 100,  keep data for 1yr??..

 

jp

 

 
Img_7693_medium
Oct 8, 2015 12:52pm
16 posts

Sam - I'm going to have a hard time justifying any cost greater than US$100 / year.  And with a paid subscription service, I'd expect greater documentation and customer support than currently exists.

Since data storage costs are the cost driver, then consider pricing schemes that reduce the storage costs.  I use SEG primarily to monitor daily trends.  I could get by with just a few weeks of data stored at SEG.  I like the ideas already presented by others here:

  • Ability to set different retention periods by stream

or more simply,

  • Automatically delete data older than a specified time

A pricing scheme based on a total storage allotment, i.e., $xx per gigabyte per year, might be easiest overall, both for administrators and for users.

 

 

 
Icon_missing_medium
Oct 8, 2015 2:16pm
1 post

Sam, you mentioned that some people have over 100 streams and wonder what they do with all that data.  I'll admit to being one of them and can at least shed some light on my own usage.  

Several years ago, it took me one whole costly California billing cycle to determine that an errant Playstation 3 was consuming ~120W when idle.   Not wanting to repeat, I decided to track power in the house we just moved into.  Completely electric, it has 3 panelboards comprising ~50(!) individual circuits.  

A GEM supports 32 circuits -- so it seemed reasonable to connect as many as possible and track them individually (otherwise I'm either wasting ports or losing resolution).  Since doing so would leave me with 18 untracked circuits, the logical answer was 2 GEMs.   I then added a pulse counting water meter and some temperature sensors -- because why not?

SEG served this data up beautifully as a dashboard for my house.  It showed me the outliers and gave me insight into the baseline.  It gave me faith in the power company's meter, and has started me down the path to rooftop PV solar (more data!).

But the fact is, most of the circuits are idle (no-load) 95-99% of the time; I still haven't found where the mystery breaker "freezer" goes.

I've recommended your site to others with an incredulous "I can't believe it's free".  You've stumbled upon one of those exceedingly rare opportunities on the internet for monetization -- and I will happily pay.  But honestly, I, like others, thought the pricing about 10x higher than the value it might some day afford me.  So in the interest of supporting your endeavour, I signed up for a premium membership, but I deleted most of my streams and started looking at openenergy CMS.  Probably not the reaction you were hoping for.

Lastly, in addition to all the great ideas here (aging and deletion), I commented on the idle circuits because I'm curious if you're actually storing every data point.  If so, and if storage is truly the largest cost, I'd also suggest an alternative strategy -- run length encoding of deltas for example.

Apologies for the wall of text.  I look forward to seeing how this thread progresses and wish you and SEG all the best.

Regards,

-D 

Stream Addict

 

 

 

Log in to reply to this topic

Forums SEGmeter Configuring Data Rates to work with the new pricing plans ?

copyright © 2008 Smart Energy Groups pty ltd