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Subscribe to Configuring Data Rates to work with the new pricing plans ? 72 posts, 18 voices , Tagged: data Rate

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Icon_missing_medium
Oct 21, 2015 9:08pm
16 posts

Hi Sam,

Asside from my question above on data rates, nice work on the invoice.  Nice and clear and easy to see what is driving my bill.

Particulalry helpful to be seeing a draft invoice during the trial period, great idea.

thanks

Glenn

 
Samotage_300_medium
Oct 22, 2015 12:11am
555 posts

Hi All,

Thanks for your kind comments.  For a long time SEG was supported by our once upon a time Government here in Australia that had energy efficiency programs.  That changed in 2013, when that Abort became prime minsister... Since then I have seen some tough times, a breakdown, divorce from hell amongst other challenges rebuilding my life from scratch.  In that period, SEG has suffered as I've struggled to make ends meet.  Building the billing engine has been a massive job, much harder than I expected, hence the delay - particularly with other events taking forefront.

But, I've kept at it, and thank you for being here.  I have managed to keep going because I don't have investors to placate - SEG is 100% bootstrapped.  I read this this morning and it is spot on.  http://avc.com/2015/10/negative-gross-margins

This is a cricual time for SEG, and it's difficult transitioning from free to paid.  Everyone want's something for nothing or more for less.

Right now, I have relaxed the gates in this transition period and I don't intend to be deleting data any time in the near future.  Besides, this means I need to write more code (which has an implicit cost) to make less money... It doesn't make sense really.

On Data Rates, those reported on the invoices right now are typically a 3 month average updated daily, however there will be an amnesty on this and the data rate calculations when time comes to bill will be based on the rates at billing time.  High data rate people will be notified of this, and very soon I will be implementing the amnetsty and sending notifications.

Data Rates are a statistic, and I hope to have some better statistic charting in the next week or so - this will work for all the stats, max, mins, averages etc.

Sam, @samotage

 
Icon_missing_medium
Oct 22, 2015 12:45am
12 posts

Hopefully instead of deleting data you  spend time creating a feature that allows one to set retention periods and roll ups so they can keep their history but at more realistic intervals such as daily or even hourly.  Then there could be a billing model where one paid for data points stored since you keep iterating storage (and your time) is the issue. 

Is there a way to merge streams permanently vs continiung to use calculated streams?

All I ask is that you give us warning and a chance to download our historic data before you start delecting it. 

I'm very hopeful that I will not have to find a more affordable solution that will allow me to keep historic data but if I do I really appreciate all the work you've put into this program as it will set the bar high for switching. 

 
Samotage_300_medium
Oct 22, 2015 2:26am
555 posts

My intentions are to delete the historic raw data, maintaining the aggregated summaries.

There are issues however, like a re-calc needs to not destroy the aggregations that can't be re-aggregated...

Sam, @samotage

 
Samotage_300_medium
Oct 22, 2015 2:30am
555 posts

@sandeen, I don't think Spotify is a comparative model... they a unicorn have massive funding to do this kind of malarkey... and probably running a negative gross margin (see my earlier post) - plus it's well documented that the actual artists get SFA from these services.

People can live without Spotify - there are many other slippery options...

Sam, @samotage

 
Icon_missing_medium
Oct 22, 2015 2:32am
12 posts

Ah, excellent. The pricing grid should make this distinction clear as that's a huuuuge difference. 

 
Dargs_medium
Oct 25, 2015 10:46am
44 posts

Hey Sam, 

I'm happy to go to paid, been a good 4 years of not having to! 

I'm still running v0.18 on my segmeter v1, just trying see whats the best way to get the dataz sending above 40sec,  is it around here somewhere that I should add more averaging & cycles? 

 

 #define CHANNELS 3 // Current sensor(s) #define SAMPLES 1000 // 1000 Samples to take

#define AVERAGES 3 // 3 Number of RMS values to average

#define CYCLES 2 // 20 Number of times to cycle through the calculations

 

Thanks

dargs

 
Dargs_medium
Oct 25, 2015 11:12am
44 posts

Ah it seems its as easy as changing the Cycles, got it set to 60 now, and the data is sending through at about every 45 seconds.

 
Icon_missing_medium
Oct 25, 2015 9:29pm
31 posts

kkemp said: Hopefully instead of deleting data you  spend time creating a feature that allows one to set retention periods and roll ups so they can keep their history but at more realistic intervals such as daily or even hourly. 

Hey Sam. Have you considered using rrdtool to achieve something like this? Its uses a data consolidation feature to set how much data is stored for different periods of time and thus limits the total amount of data stored.  Could be useful as a means of controlling the cost of storage. Maybe this could be a feature option depending on what pricing option the user wants to go for. I.e. limited data storage or unlimited.

 

 
Samotage_300_medium
Oct 25, 2015 10:50pm
555 posts

@Dargs you got it right for some of the older v1 SEGmeters!

@robb01 lols rrdtool... Perhaps the ugliest most useless tool for data storage IMHO... Can't run analytics on it and it's file based - I think the '90's just called and wants it's rrdtool back!  

@kkemp I think this could make sense, having a setting that allows people to select the raw and aggregate retention.  I'm not going to be deleting any data until I have this nailed.  FWIW - I have to go to some effort to implement this feature which will in effect reduce potential income... Do work to get paid less!  Must be a concept from some parallel universe.

Sam, @samotage

 
Icon_missing_medium
Oct 25, 2015 10:58pm
31 posts

My understanding is that you can run the analytics and graphics on the rrdtool data. The rrdtool is interposed between the incoing data and the analytics. Just a suggestion, but there may well be better tools or techniques.

 
Samotage_300_medium
Oct 25, 2015 11:08pm
555 posts

I have looked at rrdtool - and many others, and it sucks.  Period.

SEG could not do what it does if that was the underlying architecture!

 
Icon_missing_medium
Oct 26, 2015 5:01am
12 posts

I think you are looking at this feature completely wrong. This feature allows you to keep historic data vs just deleting it after 2 years. If you only keep 2 years I'll have to move to a system that can keep my historic data. If instead you charge per data point stored then eventually it'll cost too much and I'll move to a different system. Or if you do what you are doing now a new customer and a customer with 5 years of data cost you the same amount. So this feature improves your profit margins or allows you to charge less and retain more customers. 

 
Samotage_300_medium
Oct 26, 2015 5:27am
555 posts

Thanks @kkemp

My thoughts are:

1. An option to keep the amount of raw data

2. Another option to keep the amount of aggregated/summarised data.

Summarised data will of course be cheaper, as it has much less storage overhead.

I would be interested to see what people think are a fair and reasonable time frame for raw and aggregated data would be.

Sam, @samotage

 

 
Icon_missing_medium
Oct 26, 2015 8:10am
16 posts

Hi Sam

Raw data,  I'll cast a vote in for 1 month.

Aggregated / Summarised can I stretch the friendship and say forever ?

This would would work well for how I use energy data (kWh). 

Power data I'm less certain. Possible I could do without data older than 30 days at all.

temperature data, pref is forever at 30 min windows.

 
Icon_missing_medium
Oct 26, 2015 9:48am
31 posts

One way to do this, and it depends on the application, is to keep the raw data at e.g. a frequency of one minute for a short period like a month, then to keep 5 minute data for three months and 30 minute data for 12 months. 

The aggregation tools can be setup with layers to do it like this but it also puts a cap on the total amount of data being stored.

Then the user can look at monthly figures over a one year period for a long term view and look at finer detail when necessary for the recent data.

 

 
Icon_missing_medium
Oct 26, 2015 1:58pm
12 posts

Yeah, for me just keeping 30 days of power would be great and aggregated energy after 30 days. 

 
Samotage_300_medium
Oct 28, 2015 10:44pm
555 posts

An update on data rates, the rate used for calculations is now being determined over a 3 day window.  This will stretch out in time from now.

You can view what this will work out by looking at your account page.

Sam, @samotage

still thinking about data retention.

 
Icon_missing_medium
Oct 29, 2015 12:55pm
12 posts

This is why i suggested a long time ago that we should be able to host SEG locally.

No reason to be uploading smartenergygroups.com

 
Samotage_300_medium
Oct 29, 2015 10:30pm
555 posts

You can always go roll your own, or find an alternate.

 
Teles2012img_5162_medium
Nov 26, 2015 8:06am
19 posts

Aloha Sam.

 

A few questions about my system, some specific, some generic:

1- how do I use the SEG online inteface ( https://smartenergygroups.com/streams) to set individual data rates for specific streams? some I don't need to read often, others I do...

2- Do you consider my DC power streams to be calculated from a billing perspective?

3- Is there a way to make streams inactive from a data collect / billing standpoint, yet still configured? I would like to fit into one of the standard plans by inactivizing some of my streams, yet if I find I need to monitor such a stream I would swap if for a currently active stream. Can I do that with the billing system, and if so, how?

 

Enjoy the holidays - Randy

 

 
Samotage_300_medium
Nov 27, 2015 1:05am
555 posts

Hey Randy,

Your data rates are controlled by your SEGbox, there is a post earlier in this thread that shows how to adjust them.  All streams will run at the same rate, until some time a new better SEGbox codeline is written!

Your DC streams are normal streams.

All streams with data in them are considered billable.  To achieve this, you can set them inactive and then clear the data - this way the won't be updated, nor will they be billed.

Hope this helps!

Sam, @samotage

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